When Healing Changes Your Marriage: Trauma, Sexuality, and Self-Trust

0:00 Today's episode of Unbox Yourself with Samantha Fox comes with a trigger warning. Topics of trauma are discussed in this episode. My guest is a woman named Mandy. Mandy shares her story of survival and healing and how her sexuality was buried by parts of her that were focused on survival. Having come from a traumatic family, a traumatic past, she moved forward in life doing all the things we're told we're supposed to do that are going to make us successful until she decided she wanted to enter therapy.

0:37 And upon entering therapy, started to discover her not straight sexuality, which then threatened her parts that were helping her survive. And today, Mandy shares her story of arriving at a place of self-love, calm, self-compassion, and a lot of courage.

1:06 Thank you for spending this time with me on Unbox Yourself with Samantha Fox. If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and leave a review. It helps more folks find these conversations. If you're ready to unbox from something that's keeping you stuck, I would love to support you. You can find the application to the show at unboxyoursexuality.com. Let's stay connected. Find me on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at Lesbian Curiosity Coach.

1:36 Give me a follow and join the conversation. Remember, we only have this one time through. Why not unbox yourself and let your true self shine in all its beautiful glory?

1:50 Hello, and welcome to Unbox Yourself with Samantha Fox. Today, I have Mandy on with me. Mandy and I spoke eight months ago. You shared a little bit about your journey with coming out and where you were, and recently just reached out again with a great topic that I really love to speak to. And that was around trauma and sexuality and the intersection of those. I would love you to introduce yourself. Thank you so much. My name's Mandy. I was with my ex for about 18 years. A man. He's a wonderful man.

2:34 He's a kind and wonderful man. And the way we ended our relationship did have something to do with me coming out, but I don't think it was was all of it. I came out to him in 2022, which was after I had started therapy for the first time in my life ever, really, in 2020. And I sought out an LGBTQ specialized therapist, not really having come out to myself yet, kind of came out to myself in therapy with her. And she kind of acknowledged, well, next step is that your partner should be aware of how you identify.

3:10 And in 2022, I just kind of casually brought it up at a date night and the kids were at home with the grandparents. And he just said, you know, I always thought if I died, you'd marry a woman. And that began a couple years of really just trying to find myself in the relationship and in my relationship with the feelings I was having and coming out. And I really struggled with just trusting myself to know that it was enough for me to have those feelings and to be myself. And yeah. So it sounds like his reaction was surprising to you a little bit.

3:50 His reaction when he said, yeah. Yes. Yeah. So like he already had some feelings about this and you were just exploring it yourself for the first time in those years. Yeah, that we had never had any conversation about him actually wondering if I was questioning my sexuality. There had only ever been the standard, you know, boy teasing of, oh, you look like a lesbian in those sandals or something like that. That would have been the extent of my clue that he actually would think I would marry a woman if he died.

4:21 It was really shocking to me. yeah i bet and then you said that it wasn't really about your sexuality um the reason that you guys ended up separating yeah i think it was my reaction to him not acknowledging me and loving me in the way that i wish that he would it's like i came out to him he kind of like brushed it away like, oh, of course you are or something. I just said, well, you know, if I said I was bisexual, how would that land for you? And that's how he said, you know, that he had always thought I'd marry a woman if he died.

5:00 And from there, we entered a couple years of couples therapy that I was having a hard time holding myself and figuring out these feelings, let alone going into a relationship with a therapist where they could actually hold that piece of the puzzle. Because the way that I was showing up in that relationship was, had the complex PTSD kind of symptoms of being abrasive or being kind of like, I felt in fight or flight for the last couple of years of my marriage. I felt like I needed to defend myself.

5:34 I felt that I was being more and more vulnerable with him and he was being more and more rejecting where I was trying to like love myself and show up for myself and find queer community. It only became this like threat to him. So every time I would change the way I would dress or cut my hair or do something, you know, at the end of the marriage, he was commenting on all of those really tangible things that to me felt so superficial. And so it ended up feeling like this recreation almost of my core wound of my father taking his own life when I was 11 years old and abandoning the family.

6:07 I was sacred at the time in 2023, the year after I had come out to him. We had done a little bit of therapy. He wasn't able to communicate to me actually what he needed. He said, I just need you to be calm. And that just made me more angry. I need you to be calm. By the time 2023 came around, I said, I feel like an adolescent right now. I feel like I'm having a second adolescence. I'm actually letting these feelings in of being attracted to women and being honest with my husband about it. I'm not seeking out other relationships.

6:43 but I'm having a lot of thoughts and fantasy and just like feelings. And it was also mixed with a lot of devastation because I didn't want to end my marriage. I wanted him to be like, all right, Mandy, let's go to the 5K together. I love you. Like, oh yeah, my wife, she's bi. Like he was very uncomfortable with that, which seemed in stark contrast to how he presents himself to the world. So it was very confusing for me. Yeah, that makes sense. Share with me a little bit about, I know you said over the last year, you've been doing a lot more work with yourself.

7:24 You're in a really different place now than you were even a year ago. But I'm curious about this question about your trauma and sexuality. And what is it that you're kind of chewing on with this? When my dad died, my mom had a boyfriend and they did drugs. In my neighborhood, people got pregnant at a young age and were not protected. So I grew up in a way where I was navigating a system where I could show up with my own privilege of being a cute white girl. and just go through life trying to seek power, which ended up being a lot of the times trying to find a man to help me feel safe or to fill that hole of the, you know, I lost my dad, but I actually lost my mom too, or never really had her.

8:19 So it's kind of hard to know and look back, you know, I kind of became very independent at a young age. and I depended on these relationships with men. Usually a lot of times friends, somebody I would call and talk to for a long time. So when I met my husband and then we stayed together and we got married, we made a family. I put him on such a high pedestal as far as not feeling equal to him. So I think that there was a lot of codependency and it was a natural fit. And he is, like I said, a kind and wonderful person, but also needed to be centered a lot.

9:00 And I was happy to center him for a very long time. And it felt like as soon as 2020 hit and I started having symptoms of I was 40, I had a two and a four year old, I was a teacher. It was a global pandemic. I had a husband with a small business. So I'm navigating all these stresses and I start like being able to not speak up about my needs, basically, is what it comes down to, you know. And so it started out before I even came out and my sexuality was just like trying to find me, trying to find my needs and express them and then create boundaries.

9:37 I was like, create boundaries with my husband? What does that even mean? How would I even do that? So I've been in a lot of therapy, somatic healing, lots of different ways of engaging with my healing. And I think that my background of my trauma prevented me from being able to just like show up as an adult in my life and say, you know what, this is not what I need. I need this. And be kind and loving through it. I had to like scrap my way out of it. But I didn't have to necessarily do that. But that was, I didn't know another way yet.

10:12 Yeah, that was how your emotional system learned how to do it. So it was doing it how it learned from ages ago. 100%. As opposed to doing it from your adult, you know, adult woman, adult self, where yes, you have some things that are needs. Yes, you have some things that are wants. Those are also valid. Um, right. Not only your needs, but also your wants and how do you talk about those? How do you put those out onto the table for conversation? Yeah. So, okay. So in the couples therapy dynamic, you know, my husband being such a, like the opposite end of being like, so worried about what everybody else thinks all the time.

10:57 That was one of the complaints I had was like, I feel like you worry about literally everybody except for me that I have these needs or these or whatever. and that you're just more worried about what other people think. So in the couples therapy that dynamic played out really not in my favor because he was really seen as the more respectful one I would communicate things in couple therapy in a way that was not my adult self that was my acting out hurt self. And I, for better or worse, that was, you know, pretty much the final straw was when we, when we broke up with the couple therapist and we were really trying for a long time, it's amazing to just make it work.

11:41 But ultimately, he made the decision to end the marriage. And I said, no, I don't want it. And I still have moments where I'm like, couldn't we have figured it out? But at the end of the day, we're not for each other in that romantic companion way. And it's just sad when you have especially kids involved. And so we have this opportunity now to be co-parent to be co-parents and to have a different relationship. And I'm just finally really like releasing the resentments so that I can see my kids, what they need and act accordingly.

12:18 Yeah. It's a lot of undoing, right? It's a lot of unpacking and slowing down when you have a really activated emotional system for really good reason, because it helped you survive. That to be to land where you are now, it's like a lot of unpacking and undoing. And yeah, I mean, yeah, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. And my ex is, he was in therapy, I was in therapy, we were observing this as it was happening to, you know, we read Oprah's book, what happened to you. We, you know, we're both in therapy.

12:56 We're both in his therapist is, you know, teaching him about trauma, which that's a whole nother question for me is like, how much are you going to therapy to talk about another person? That's kind of a symptom in my opinion, but when you're not focusing on yourself and where you are and what your pieces and that was also seemed to be like a theme for me, but we learned a lot. And he would tell me that his therapist would tell him, yeah, Mandy's just revving at a seven at all times, you know, and I could feel that and I can feel how I've I healed my nervous system by being out of that relationship.

13:26 And it's been a lot of work, but I am healing my nervous system so that I actually don't even know if I have access to that same level of aggravation that I was in. It was really uncomfortable for me and obviously for everybody around me. And I'm able to look back and hold myself with a little bit of compassion, hold other people with compassion for having experienced me in my untrue self. That's not who I am, you know. But there was a lot of pain. It was my ex and the couple therapist and his therapist because they communicated.

14:02 They were talking about, oh, is she bipolar? Does she have a personality disorder? And I really think that that is my complex PTSD symptoms mixed with any other neurodivergence I have that was easy to just, you know, oh, she's the crazy lady. You know, it's amazing how even when you're seeking out people and when you are people, like my ex is not, he's very aware. He's spiritual. He's, you know, he's kind. But like he was scared. He was really scared. And he did not want me to keep getting worse because he felt like he had no way of engaging with me to make it better.

14:44 And I just felt like I just want you to love me. And he just kept being turned away by me showing up as a queer woman. That's it. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm sure that that was triggering for you on so many levels, including a very early abandonment level with your dad, you know, and your mom. And my mom. Yeah. And not seeing me and feeling misunderstood, you know, those kinds of things. Feeling misunderstood. Right. sort of glossed over um and then kind of finding this amazing guy who's so kind and loving and you know smart and spiritual and all the things that he was on the pedestal um having you know what sounds like a pretty good relationship for a while until you came to this place where you started doing some deeper inner work and coming to terms with this reality, which is that you were not straight.

15:57 I'm not hearing you say I was gay. I'm hearing you say I realized I was not straight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's an ongoing journey. And yeah. And him not knowing what that means or even how to at the end of the marriage, he was saying, I married heterosexual Mandy Sue. And he literally gestured as if there were this separate person that existed outside of me, the person in front of him. And I said, that's, that's false. That is me. I am that. Like, I am still this person. And I'm trying to reveal myself to you.

16:34 And it was too much for him. He did. He didn't want it. He said, No, I don't want that. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I want to say also that it's not uncommon. I mean, his reaction is is was outwardly like, I don't want that. I want you to be this. I also hear a lot of reactions from male partners, spouses that are just like, OK, OK. And then nothing. And that's kind of where we were. But I kept being like, I'm moving. Yeah, I'm going to this dance thing. And so it ended up feeling like a pull from the marriage, how I needed to create space for each other.

17:14 So he would go and be with his people and I would go with being my, and he's just like, you're over there doing, he literally said this to me one day in a conversation. And I like to go mountain biking and you like to do LGBTQ stuff. I was like, okay. As you know, I have this community called the Bi-Life, right? And the women that are in that space are, almost all of them are in some kind of partnership or marriage with a man where they either have come out and identified as not straight, bisexual, or lesbian, or queer, and they are still navigating these relationships.

17:52 And it's complicated. You know, it is complicated. Some of them have opened the relationship, but a lot of them have kind of explored what it is that you're saying you are doing, which is kind of like, you know, I am not straight. I am queer. And I want to find a way to integrate this into my day to day being like I just want to be able to be queer. it doesn't mean I don't want to be with you. It doesn't mean I want to leave and have a relationship with somebody else. But it does mean I want to find ways to celebrate that this is who I am, you know, and I have to say, you know, it's really quite inspiring, which is surprising to me because I didn't live that either.

18:40 But it's quite inspiring how many male partners are expansive. enough to kind of allow that exploration within oneself without necessarily stepping out of the relationship. I was so hopeful. I was so hopeful that that was my ex. And that's why that's the angle I approached, which was just like, I am me and I'm just going to become more me every day. And I'm doing this from the lens of healing. In the end, six months before we actually separated, I did end up saying, I want to have sex with a woman.

19:14 Yes, I still feel sexually frustrated and disconnected from you. That did come up in the end. But I had never stepped out, nor had we really had a conversation about opening the marriage because I was so uncomfortable and had no communication skills around it. I could not figure out how to talk to him about it. And I don't I can't take that all on my part either. I think that our dynamic was such that it was really hard for us to have that. because I knew how he felt about it, which was he was not, he's not interested and he wants to be monogamous and, and that's it.

19:43 Cause he would, he would comment on other people doing it. And that's how I knew how he felt about that. So. Okay. What's coming up for me is some homophobia on his behalf. Because that's just the energy that I'm getting. And I'm curious, you know like where you are with that like did it feel like that did it feel like yes okay yes it felt like homophobia which is like the furthest thing from what he would say he stands for right i literally was saying at the end of the marriage you're all good with people being gay unless it's your wife like you draw the line at your light your wife and he would he would come back and say yes, I am allowed to support LGBTQ issues.

20:33 He has a small business and he does fundraisers every year, at least once a year, if not more, you know, there's something that happens. Like he is on the right side of history in theory, but could not go there with me. It threatened his absolute sense of manhood. I don't know. Yeah. I think he really just ultimately was like, I can't be that for you. Right. And I think was stuck in a little bit of like some old school thinking of like, if you're bi, you have to do that. I mean, like I said, at the end of the marriage, I was like, yes, I absolutely.

21:05 And I do feel like, you know, and that's another conversation we can have separately of like, I, I, now that I have had experience with a woman, it has like such a healing effect on me that I do know that it probably was what needed to happen. Regardless, do I think that that would have been okay to do and like open up the marriage? Like would that have resulted in us staying together? Probably not. It wasn't for us, you know, but I was, I was really unwilling, even to the day when we ultimately separated, I did not want to separate.

21:37 I did not want to get a divorce. And I still struggle with those feelings sometimes of, of yeah, like abandonment, you know, it's like, did I put myself in a situation that I ultimately knew was like, not going to work out. And so I'm recreating my trauma. like you know he's he's tends to be avoidant and kind of put up a lot of walls in the final years I never really knew what he was thinking or feeling and that kind of felt similar to how I grew up with my mom and her drug addict friends always hiding behind closed doors and not really being open and honest with me yeah yeah look I mean I think there's so much nuance in all of it And I also want to just add in the stigma of divorce on top of everything you just said as well.

22:24 And just what, you know, what society says about divorce, what we're told about divorce. You know so I mean there a lot of layers to that Yeah And we do you know look we do recreate situations from early in life in our later relationships to try to kind of redo them. Right. Not consciously, but our, you know, our systems kind of are attracted to people that are familiar and with the hope though, to do some healing. Like it's always like this time I won't be abandoned. Like I'm going to get this great person.

23:04 And even though they're avoidant with me, they're going to be less avoidant and they're actually going to choose me. And then I'm going to feel more healed from all of the things I lived through when I was younger. None of that is conscious. Totally. It felt like that. Yeah. Yeah. So the healing that I've, that I've been doing in the past year has been in loving myself, but actually really loving myself and really showing up for myself and therefore able to show up for my kids and just focusing on spending boring time with them, doing mom stuff, not pushing it, not trying to do too much.

23:40 And they're doing amazing. So we're co-parenting in our own ways, but we're communicating enough that I think the kids feel, they feel great. We're going to have a little bit of time together. I struggle still with this concept of like, what is together as a family and how much or how little to do that? Because there needed to be a little bit of boundary around that. Because I think my ex really, you know, he places a high value on people liking him and wanting everything to be okay. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

24:10 But it's a little bit kind of bypassing of the whole, you know, the weight of a divorce and a separation. I couldn't just put on a face and say, oh, yeah, it's cool. Let's do a barbecue out the back, you know, like with the kids. It's cool. You know, it has taken me a little bit of time to figure out how to restructure my own system to be able to like show up in harmony. You know, share some space, share some time for the kids. So, yeah. And I mean, I'm hearing that that from what you're sharing, it hasn't been all that long since you did separate.

24:48 No, it's only been a year and a half. We will be divorced officially a year in June. So yeah, it's very fresh. yeah no i just want to say definitely more grace with yourself i mean a year and a half is i mean that's that's really short um yeah and this is all new and difficult on so many levels for so many reasons and then there's your kids which are a whole nother layer to it there's your sexuality. I mean, there's like so much happening here and a year and a half is two seconds. And, and you don't know five years from now, how this is going to feel and 10 years from now, how this is going to feel.

25:39 And I've seen everything, you know, from my own situation and how I am with my ex and his wife and, you know, clients who are able to maintain friendships and even go on vacations with their exes, with their female partner and their ex's new partner. So everything is possible, but just to really have a lot of grace with yourself around where you are now and what you need to do to maintain this, you know, calmer nervous system that is quiet so you can be with the kids and kind of be a little boring and all of that just so great yeah yeah it's like it's it's amazing it's fantastic you know such a gift i've really been able to show up as a much better mother honestly immediately yeah yeah so and i mean what's kind of interesting is you know your sexuality kind of came up as this piece that's Created distance between the two of you to the point where he just couldn't accept that.

26:45 And also that while you thought you were relatively happy in the relationship, I also hear a lot of things that weren't really working so well for you. Yeah. And it all follows the timeline of me starting therapy in 2020. he would reference that in the couple's therapist's office and say oh when mandy started therapy in 2020 that's when i really started to see the change you know and it was almost like he was saying it in this lamented way of like that's when she started feeling her gayness and i know that's not what he meant necessarily but and it also corresponds with my my journey in healing codependency and that very much follows the line of like yeah i couldn't center him anymore I needed being centered and he was resentful that I needed that.

27:38 And yeah, it's okay. And that's, he decided that that's not what he was willing to do. He didn't want to have a wife that identified as bi and that one who wanted to have sex with a woman. And, and that was his choice to be able to say, no, this is, I'm done with this relationship. Yeah. I'm still working through my feelings of, of any real desire to want to be friendly with him. I do want to be friendly. Of course, he's the father of my children. And in a little bit more of a boundaried way than I think he's at times kind of presented, you know, wanting.

28:12 He just wants friendliness right away. And it's like, okay, give me a beat here. And I am friendly. Like, we haven't gone non-communication, but we didn't do a collaborative divorce. We each got a lawyer. So at the end of the day, you have a base level of not friendliness in that scenario. when I don't, you know, we don't 100% trust each other. And it was okay. It went really fast. He was pushing my, it was, he really just wanted to get past it, get it done before, you know, the season started for his business.

28:44 And okay. So it was, it felt too fast for me. You know, it felt traumatic the way that was part of why I couldn't just, I think, I don't know, I think it all paid out the way it had to. And now I'm able, I'm grateful that I'm able to look back and say, that was really hard. I can see why you were freaking out, while you were, you know, revving at that high level of the fight or flight. But everything is okay. Yeah. Everything is day by day. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You had mentioned earlier, Mandy, about your own internalized homophobia.

29:19 And I'm just curious, are you aware of that having had an impact on it taking you till 2020 to go into therapy and start exploring this. I think you said you didn't go in because of your sexuality, but you did seek out an LGBTQ therapist. So it was there, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't the reason, but you wanted that. So yeah, I'm just curious about, you know, how, how you experienced your own internalized homophobia and what part that played in taking you till 2020. Well, yeah. I mean, any woman who grows up a little bit sporty, a little bit brave, a little bit outspoken or not how maybe the typical female shows up has had comments made to her about being lesbian.

30:17 So I internalized at a young age that that's not something that I wanted to be associated with, not because I knew anybody who was lesbian, but because it wasn't going to take me to that power line aligning with a male person in my life for my future or whatever, making a family, whatever it is, getting married. And I just, I really did not grow up around any sort of queer culture. And I think the actual attraction to females has always been, I'm not attracted to my friends. I'm attracted to gay women, period.

30:52 And that's how I would feel something, but I would push that down so fast that I wouldn't acknowledge it as being something to pay attention to. In fact, it would be something that I would pay attention to in order to squash, right? And then the way I would feel early on in admitting to myself that I am bi, at very least, the feeling I had of rejection from my husband that I knew that prevented me from admitting it to myself. Absolutely. And I wanted to be like, I have these amazing female friends.

31:27 I have this, I have that, you know, I'm in community in this way and that way. And it's, it's just not the same. It's not the same as being able to sexually express yourself in relationship with another person. So that disconnection from my husband, once I did finally let those feelings in, it was like, I let those feelings in. And then I let in the feelings of actually being sexualized at a very young age that was inappropriate and those feelings of being unprotected. And, and then those feelings of shame around relationships I had had in the past with men that were very unhealthy.

32:05 And, and then, you know, I have this, this husband of mine, although who was lovely, doesn't have a real, he's not very present in that, that sexual encounter. It's like, we were, you know, loving and kind, but like, it was very, like, it wasn't, there wasn't eye contact. It wasn't, you know, he didn't just reach out for me. It took a lot. And we worked through that a lot in couples therapy. And he was trying to like, be better about just like coming over and putting his hands on my shoulders when he gets home from work and stuff like that.

32:36 But I was really touch starved. I felt very touch starved always. And then there's the balance of blaming that on my own trauma. And like, that's too like, is that too much to ask? What is it? But the feeling I had of accepting myself as a gay woman and how that would affect how my husband looked at me. Yeah, that prevented me from really being able to come out. Even after I came out, I didn't know if it was true, really. Even after getting divorced, it's like, am I ever going to meet someone? Am I going to really?

33:04 No. Is this real? So still a part of you kind of gaslighting these feelings that are and have been real for a lifetime that would slowly rise up. Not slowly. They would rise up to consciousness and you would bat them back down. But still a part of you that gaslights you that, well, that's not, I mean, who knows even if that's real? Well, not currently, but definitely in 2022 when I came out, I was still in that stage. in 2023 I met a woman who I was actually really attracted to and that was like even though we didn't have any kind of relationship um it still confirmed to me that I was like yeah there is something here that I don think I can go throughout my life without exploring like acceptance for And I didn necessarily communicate it in those words to my husband at that exact moment because it was an experience.

34:02 And the way I experienced it was a lot of grief, honestly. Having those intense feelings of attraction coupled with absolute devastation in my heart and real emotional pain. Yeah. So complex. So many things happening at once. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And today in terms of not only accepting, but like embracing and like being good with who you are and, you know, having your identity, where are you today with it? well immediately after separating i went on a trip and i met a woman in paris and we've been dating and that's the short story and i show up in community with other queer women like there's a queer women divorce group i'm a part of i just do like little social things like poetry readings and stuff that's like so in alignment with who i am and so not something that my husband was into You know, so that part feels really good that I'm able to, you know, I'm in a relationship with someone who lives so far away from me.

35:09 And that feels like the right fit for me right now. I know there's all different types of ways to show up in relationship and people do long distance and live states away and probably see each other the same amount that we do. And or at least we did last year. It's it's a lot. It's it's it's something that's kind of like, OK, where do I go with this? You know, how do I, how do I let in the good and how do I just let it be good and let it be joy and pleasure and, and self-actualization and, you know, and also, yeah, find the balance of making sure that I'm really rooted in my life and building my new, my new life, which I am.

35:48 I spend a lot of time by myself and, like I said, in community with other mostly queer women, but also all of my old friends. I mean, I have so many friends that are popping in, you know, supporting me here and there, reaching out. I feel really grateful. yeah so this desire to be wanted and loved and upheld and seen in all the ways it sounds like by your husband you actually have created in the world around you even if it's not with you know with him in the way that you initially really I'm going to say your emotional system really wanted it to be yeah I did yeah I wanted yeah yeah no I am and yeah and you have it and you have it.

36:33 And it sounds like you also kind of have it just from yourself, like you're giving it to yourself. Yes, that's it. And that's the question of the internalized homophobia is like, knowing that impacted the way I was able to show up in the end of my marriage, because I was still, I would say that out loud in therapy, you know, how can you accept me if I still don't accept me? You know, I still had such an insecurity around claiming this as part of my identity without him like acknowledging it or embracing it, which I can see as such a very codependent behavior, like not helpful, not a great way of being in relationship.

37:12 But I really felt that I needed that to continue the relationship because of how I felt that he viewed me and how he felt about me. I didn't feel secure. Yeah, I didn't feel securely attached to him anymore. I felt very othered yeah i mean the fact that he couldn't see it and accept it and embrace it while you had no control over him doing that his inability to do it would create a disconnect in any in any relationship i mean you know codependent or not like that going to create a disconnect in a relationship where somebody is not willing to see something about you that is authentic and they're just not going to accept it.

37:58 Like I'm not accepting that this is authentic to who you are is basically saying I'm not accepting you. Yeah. That's how it felt. You know, I don't know what he thought was, I don't, I don't know if he ever even claimed that he was trying to accept me. I think he really was clear. Like, no, I don't, I don't want a gay wife. You know, like again, fair. That's your choice. You know, that's okay. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. absolutely and that was a lot of work and that's where you arrived exactly that's that was the work you had to do was to get there and be like that's fair sure yeah trust trust me i've had plenty of women remind me you know when i was in moments of feeling sorry for myself that i needed to remember how hard it was for him including the couple therapist right what about how hard it is for me to show up as this like hetero freaking suburban mom showing up at a bisexual meetup.

38:50 That's so awkward and hard for me to even like look for that resource of a support group, let alone show up at an event like so vulnerable. I, yeah, it didn't help my relationship with my husband, but it helped my relationship with me. And to this day, I have affiliation with that group. It's a nonprofit. it. You know, I hosted the 5K at Pride last year and had a few people from, it's called Be Connected. They're great in Colorado. They have all kinds of events, right? But just that like assumption right away, you hear that word bisexual, you know, be connected.

39:30 Ooh, scary. Meet up. She must be trying to go have sex with someone immediately is the assumption. And so that was really hard to navigate. Yeah, that piece. When you say that, that immediately that was the assumption, whose assumption was that? Not only my ex, but it got reinforced in couples therapy. I can tell you how that played out if you want, but like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I have, you know, I've heard also from women in the bi-life community who are so frustrated with the fact that like, at the end of the day, like the sex is the thing that people pay the most attention to around this where, I mean, it's, there's a lot of identity that goes way beyond sex.

40:12 Yes. Yes. I mean, that's one, that's one way of expressing, but there are a lot of others. Yes. Yes. And how this, this focus becomes on, you know, you want to have sex with the same gender, you know, that's, that's what this is. And yeah. Yeah. That made him spin out. Yep. but then I was expressing myself in literally all of the other ways I could possibly figure out without having sex with someone's we you know I tried he tried and me trying just sent him away further seeing me express as showing up in the world as more of a queer woman he didn't like that yeah and now you have you and you have your community yeah and you have your relationship with your kids and you have yourself.

40:59 So, you know, it's a journey. I mean, it is certainly a journey. I also have early trauma. For me, my early trauma kept me from being able to access my sexuality until it like hammered me on the head. You know what I mean? With an actual person. But I had, just like you, I had the feelings come up, but they just didn't connect and hook into consciousness. Yeah. They all came up and then they just went back down again, you know? Yeah. Until one did hit consciousness. And when that one hit consciousness, my entire life blew up.

41:36 Yeah. So, but the reason that none of them hit consciousness, I think trauma is layered into that along with all of the societal, I don't have religious conditioning, but societal conditioning around how women are valuable in the world, which is by being a wife, having a man, being a mother, being married, and all of these things that I never had any interest in doing ever. I never thought that those were things I wanted, but I did them because I was supposed to. So, you know, we all have a journey and we all have a story of how we landed here.

42:17 So many of us have trauma that has certainly kept us from being able to access our sexuality earlier. It's like I wasn't in a safe enough situation in my life until I was in that marriage to actually explore. Absolutely. Yeah. And even though it didn't work out with my ex and that he didn't, he didn't necessarily want to be with me, you know, having revealed that identity, we had enough of a relationship where I felt safe to, to really like break down for the first time in my life, you know? That's the interesting thing is like actually feeling victimized for and like processing my trauma and feeling like a victim for the first time in my life, whereas like I never lived my life from the victim standpoint.

43:01 I always just, oh, I'm just going to surpass. I'm just going to, you know, go for the gold and I'm going to achieve and I'm going to do all these things. And then reaching that stability in life, that moment where I was able to say, oh, I'm going to get some therapy. I'm going to let things fall through the cracks a little bit. I'm going to not please all the time, not be pleasing all the time. So that's where it began before it was really front and center that it was that my sexuality was a piece of it.

43:24 Yeah, makes makes a lot of sense. Yeah, well, I am so glad that you shared your story with my listeners. And I hope this feels somehow, you know, like you're not alone in this at all. And just remember to have a lot of grace with yourself. And this is a journey, you know, all along, even the relationship you're in, it's, you know, it's got its gifts and just being in each day and what that day brings as its gift. And you don't need to know what's going to happen next year or six months from now.

43:57 You can totally be in today. And, you know, that's, that's the opposite of survival mode, which you sure sound like you lived in for long enough. I sure did. And just reemphasize that for your listeners. You don't have to have it all figured out. You don't have to be sitting here constantly trying to figure it out because that feels like the state I've been in. And that's like such a beautiful place to get to, even if you only have a moment of that. Thank you for spending this time with me on Unbox Yourself with Samantha Fox.

44:28 If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and leave a review. It helps more folks find these conversations. If you're ready to unbox from something that's keeping you stuck, I would love to support you. You can find the application to the show at unboxyoursexuality.com. Let's stay connected. Find me on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at Lesbian Curiosity Coach. Give me a follow and join the conversation. Remember, we only have this one time through.

44:59 Why not unbox yourself and let your true self shine in all its beautiful glory.