Room to Grow: Expansion, Self-Abandonment, and the Queer Experience

0:00 From day one, we are told who we should be, how to live, and what's acceptable. Before we even have a chance to discover ourselves, our society has already drawn those lines for us. But what happens when those lines are keeping us from knowing and embracing who we truly are? Welcome to Unbox Yourself with Samantha Fox, a podcast about unpacking and unlearning everything that's kept you from living as your true self. Through honest conversations about your internal emotional landscape, sexuality, coming out later in life, relationships, and the journey to self-acceptance, we break free from the boxes we never chose.

0:51 Welcome to Unbox Yourself with Samantha Fox. I have my friend and colleague back, Christine Vargo. I'm so glad to have yet another interesting conversation with you, Christine, today. Great to be here. Thank you so much for having me back. Yes, it's always fun. So you had shared with me that you wanted to have a conversation on expansion as a topic. And yeah, maybe you can tell us a little bit more just about, you know, what's coming up for you around expansion or what was it that you felt like you wanted to speak to in expansion?

1:26 Yeah, I think for me, because I've been doing a lot of my own work for so many years at this point, I've been taking a lot of time to reflect on like, okay, what happened in these different relationships? What happened in these different work environments through conversations with my daughter? He was like, have you ever been fired from a job? And I'm like, yeah, actually, I had been fired from many jobs. One specific job I had during the pandemic, and I started in March. And then by September, I was like, this isn't for me.

1:56 And I could feel myself slowly over time collapsing. And I've had these moments in my life of just now I'm reflecting and saying, like, I wasn't growing. I wasn't expanding in that relationship. And then asking, like, what were the ingredients of that dynamic or the environments? that limited my potential or limited my growth or I wasn't able to focus on my life or I didn't but I don't want to say it wasn't able I wasn't I wasn't I was choosing not to focus on aspects of my own life so I could grow and then just thinking about it with with clients who are stuck in in work positions that they don't love so that got me thinking about like what does it mean to be aware enough of your nervous system to know what's happening.

2:47 And you're asking yourself these questions about like, am I expanding or am I growing? Are you in relationships or you're in work dynamics, you know, two years too long, a year and a half too long? Like, what is it that we need to like kind of train ourselves away from the conditioning that tells us we need to check these boxes and marriages need to last many years and right they need to last forever regardless of what they actually look like in reality right and so yeah so that just got me thinking about like well what does it mean to expand so I just wanted to have the conversation with you because I think it's a good question and I think it's something that I've felt personally of like, I can feel the expansion that's happening for my life now versus, you know, what's happened when I've been in relationship and it's, and then asking the question, like, is it because of the relationship or is it because of my attachment or is it because my MO is to abandon myself in relationships or has been?

3:50 And, you know, I think it's just interesting to talk about like what goes into the idea of like, am I expanding? Am I growing? Am I not? And why? Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's a great subject. And it makes me think of so many different things. I mean, one thing that came up for me while you were speaking on it was you said with this particular job that you felt like you were kind of collapsing. But that even though we might feel that in a relationship or in a job situation, we don't always heed that warning.

4:23 we feel the thing happening, but the message doesn't quite come through, even though we're collapsing the message of, hey, you need to change something here. You need to do something about this doesn't always come through. So like, you know, sometimes we do collapse, right? In different ways. And as you were talking about it, what I was thinking about was So steps to it, right? I need to do something about this. This doesn't feel good. This isn't feeling good system. And then the next piece I think is interesting too, because it speaks to whether or not we have relational skills because then it's like, okay, that all might be true and might be happening for you?

5:12 And are you able to then try to address that? Is there a way to address this with the larger system or with a partner to be able to have that communication of like, hey, you know, I'm not feeling connected to myself. I'm not feeling like I have space to grow. Can we have a conversation about what's happening here around that? And as you said, it's something you've struggled with, right? So it's something that happens internally, right? I need to show up a certain way. I need to make sure everybody around me is happy.

5:48 I need to make sure everybody else sees a relationship or me in the relationship in a certain way. So to even bring that conversation to light could be really scary and also, you know, not possible, right? So I'm just, as you were talking about this, I started thinking through like all these different levels of where we might be able to affect change. You know, and eventually, if we've gone through all these things, to be strong enough to be like, nothing has changed enough for me to be able to expand in this.

6:27 And now I need to change course. and I'm going to be okay with that and not look at it as a failure. I'm going to look at it as expansion and growth. Yes. And I think it's interesting because when you kind of, or at least I'll speak from my experience, like if I've been in a relationship and I'm like, yeah, I'm committed to this. I'm open to this. I'm vulnerable in this. I want to show up in these ways. I don't believe that I've known myself well enough in any relationship I've had so far to be able to have the skills that you're talking about to say, hey, I want to be growing in this way or I want to be expanding in this way.

7:09 And I'm realizing that I'm not because the self abandonment piece, it's really loud. And so I think it's interesting. And then when the universe It's like, okay, you're not paying attention to signs and signals that your nervous system is sending you. Like in one relationship, I was like actively dizzy and went and got a diagnosis and was like, why am I so dizzy? And it was like, it was all of this stress. And that was how my, my body was responding to it. Or thing through your body. Yeah. And, you know, in this last relationship, like I was grinding my teeth to like oblivion and I had a mouth guard and like all these things.

7:47 And now being out of that, I'm not grinding my teeth anymore. And, you know, I feel myself in my body. So it's forced me to expand in these ways, just the nature of having, you know, the relationship be what it was and having it end. And like, now I get to have my autonomy in the ways that I've had it before. And it feels really good to be in this place of expansion and this place of like, yep, this is this is what I'm meant to be doing. And I think the next level is like, I want to be able to be in partnership with somebody where I can continue to expand.

8:24 Yes. And if I'm not expanding, then I'm able to hook into that awareness much sooner. Yes. And so, yeah, I think it's, you know, I think when we're forced out of, like, forced out of a job the same way, right? If you're laid off because that's what's happening now, it's kind of like commonplace that a lot of people, you know, they lose their jobs more often, more so than it's more about like finances or whatever is shifting in the actual organization or the company itself versus like you're not a good employee.

8:55 So we're letting you go. when I've worked with clients who have been like in this impasse with the work that they're doing and they're kind of like, I know I don't want to be doing this, but I don't really know the next step. And so it's always kind of like, okay, well, let's, let's think about like what you feel strongly about. Or like one question I always ask is, you know, if you were in the, in a supermarket and you overheard a conversation, what is the topic of that conversation that you would be so inclined to join into it.

9:26 And just to get kind of into a place of inquiry and curiosity around like, well, what's the thing that like lights me up? And, you know, I think in relationships, we can lose sight of like, especially if they're longer term, you lose sight of like, well this person you know I want to feel like I lighting up and not from a like adolescent honeymoon phase but I want to feel like we light each other up and we supportive and we witnessing each other grow. And we have the kind of connection that leads us both to a place of like, well, I know that I'm not happy doing what I'm doing, or I know that I'm not happy in this dynamic for this way for this reason.

10:10 And I think that's rare. And I think it's, it's important. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I agree that it's rare. You know, yeah, I mean, I guess there's this way that we all more or less are conditioned really from our earliest years to be, you know, we learn, We learn to be pleasing so that we can survive. I mean, honestly, like if we want to survive as humans, which is our innate drive, then we need to please our caretakers so that they keep taking care of us so we can survive. So from the earliest of our learnings, I mean, it's really a survival instinct.

10:56 We learn how to be pleasing. and in that learning depending on what kind of environment you've grown up in you might have heard things like don't cry don't start crying now just don't do that are you kidding me you're crying don't you know go to your room I don't want to see that right birthday. So, you know, you're eight, you're 10, you start to disconnect from your sadness, because you realize that that person that you need to take care of you is not pleased and doesn't want to even be around you.

11:36 If you're having this core emotion that is part of your nervous system, Right? So here we go with the disconnect. And that's just one tiny example of the myriad of ways that we learn through our survival instincts and also our socialization to disconnect from ourselves. so when you say it's rare I agree it's rare and I think that a lot of that does have to do with how we're socialized still even today parenting doesn't come with like a guidebook yeah and and honestly there should be some kind of basic manual on emotional systems and how you respond to somebody so that they grow up having the healthiest nervous system possible I mean really like, like, why is that so hard?

12:34 You know, I mean, it should be so basic, right? It should be. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And I think, you know, I think I always say if you're born after 2010, you might have a shot at that because, you know, I have, you know, I have teenagers and they, they have their emotional intelligence is far greater than mine was when I was their ages. And I think that's attributed to like social emotional learning that's like taught in school. And I, you know, I definitely don't think it's like enough, but it's more than what we had.

13:05 And, you know, if you have caregivers who were like, even in their generation, were seen and not heard, and then you have negative emotions and they don't know what to do with them. So the answer is like, I can't hold your, your emotions because my discomfort that comes up, I get activated. And my path of leads resistance is that and that is going to be to send you to your room or to say, stop crying. Right. And then you're and then you're basically alone, you know. And so then you learn that when you have more difficult emotions, and honestly, it doesn't even have to be difficult emotions, because a lot of people that I've worked with also have this with joy.

13:51 Like they can't feel joy. They can't connect to joy because that was threatening in their family. You know, don't be excited. You're too excited. Go to your room. You're acting too excited. You know, joy is the hardest emotion for us to feel because we're wired for survival. And if I'm going to feel joy, then I'm going to automatically go to the place of like, when's the other shoe going to drop? The other shoe is going to drop. Yeah. Right. When am I going to like, I can't, I can't feel this joy too much or too, too often because inevitably something bad is going to happen.

14:23 Yeah. And the reality is, yes, something hard is going to happen because that's, that's what happens. We need the contrast, right? And the life. I mean, that's just life. And we need both because we don't grow in joy. We only grow in pain. so we have to have these hard moments or the contrast i'll say instead of pain because pain is part of life but suffering is when like we want our experience to be different than what it is so like if i'm going to give myself permission to feel joy and i'm not going to forebode it then i'm going to practice gratitude and a gratitude practice is like the antidote to foreboding joy according you know dr bernie brown that's her findings right that's her research and so So it's been super useful, especially trying to undo the conditioning that we're all in.

15:12 And if you're neurodivergent and you struggle with interoception, then I think it compounds even more of like, I don't know what I'm feeling. I've been detached from my feelings because I wasn't allowed to feel my emotions growing up. And then now you're asking me in adult relationships to feel my feelings and be vulnerable. But if I'm not connected to what those are, because it's not something that I've practiced, and I struggle with connecting to what's happening in my internal landscape, then what do I do?

15:44 I want to say slow down, which is not necessarily an answer, but it's part of the journey. For so many of us, we don't know exactly what we're feeling in the moment. And if we don't slow down to take the time and if you don't have like safety in your relationship where you can say something's not feeling great and I need to just take a couple of hours to figure out what it is and then I'm going to come back to you with it. But also, I love you and I'm not going anywhere. I just want to be able to share this with you and I don't quite know what it is yet that's coming up for me.

16:23 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, these are like very advanced communication skills that most people do not have. Yeah. And, you know, to be fully transparent and honest with, you know, it's something that I've recently realized through my own experience with my kid. She's also neurodivergent. And, you know, it was through kind of my inquiry about what was happening for me. We were, you know, struggling through something. And I was like, maybe I'm not checking into what I'm feeling and I'm acting before I really know, or I'm not slowing down to your point.

16:59 And I'm not saying I need a beat to figure out like what is actually happening for me before I respond to what's happening. Especially if you're in conflict or you're in a hard conversation, if you don't have the awareness, it's really hard. And, you know, it's hard to be the adult and communicating well and knowing what your needs are and naming them in the moment, especially if your prefrontal cortex is offline, your nervous system is shot, and you're only kind of like, for me, if I was in conflict in a relationship, my MO would be to shut down.

17:37 But I wasn't fully aware that that's what was happening until it was reflected to me. Like, what's happening to you? You're shutting down or where are you going? Like, whatever. I'm dissociating or... And so for me, even knowing and understanding and learning that kind of recently from a totally separate experience from partnership and something that's happening with my kid, it's been really eye-opening and recognizing like, oh, that's part of one of the reasons going back to the idea of expansion.

18:05 done one of the reasons i wasn't able to expand in the ways that i am now is because i didn't have the awareness that i have and i think that's part of life but like really taking in and understanding like i don't have to beat myself up for what i didn't have awareness of before what i work with all my clients is like what's what's happening or like everything connects and everything is is energetics and rooted in your attachment style, rooted in what you learned and how you survived and what you kind of developed over time to keep that survival.

18:41 And so recognizing that and making it accessible, just being curious about like, okay, what's happening to like, you know, like you said, like pausing and saying, I need to take a minute to figure out what's actually happening. Yeah. I use the IFS lens a lot for this. So I think of it in terms of parts, parts of us that developed to make sure that we would be able to survive. And then the self-led self-energy of the adults that we turn into when we're no longer actually in survival mode. Right. Right.

19:16 So you're not depending on your parents to feed you and, you know take care of you in all the ways you're an adult and your parts that develop to make sure you be able to survive those early environments are basically I say hijacking and so it about what you said like having that that self leader in yourself that can be curious It like oh wow like my chest just got so tight You know, or wow, like I just got so dizzy. Yeah. The sudden I'm dizzy. What is, what's happening? What part of me is that?

19:57 You know, it's slowing down enough to start to get curious to ask those questions. And I even with my clients suggest that they initially before even working with these parts, because the goal is never to get rid of them. If we didn't have these parts, we wouldn't have survived. So like, oh, bow down to these parts, you know, thank you, appreciate these parts. It's just to say hi to them. Like, you know, just welcome them. So when you notice it comes in, just say hi to it and welcome it because that's already creating a pause.

20:25 if you really notice that it's coming in you're creating that you're slowing down enough to create the pause before you're hijacked by this part that is trying to make sure that you survive and thinks that you're like eight when you're 50 definitely because you know what you're explaining ifs is very similar to gestalt it's like it's all parts work it's all focused like what is this this part what's the feelings what you know what is it that if it had a voice what well what's it saying, it's a color, a texture, all of it.

20:53 Right. And so I love doing parts work with clients and helping them kind of understand where they're like the fixed gestalt kind of developed early on. And like what part, and you know, one of the thing is like, you're not broken. Nobody is broken. And we all have these different parts and it's about integrating all of them instead of, I hate this part about myself. Yes. You know, one of the things, one of the things that came up with kind of an awareness yesterday was I spent so much time masking and adapting and not really leaning into my neurodivergence that it's almost like I equated it to like my own internalized homophobia and recognizing that it's like I had this internalized like neurodivergence phobia.

21:39 I didn't want to pay attention to it. But now that I've been paying attention to it and embracing it, I'm expanding. Yeah. That's a great analogy. Yeah. To it. Because when you work through your internalized homophobia and you recognize like, I can be and show up exactly who I am and decondition myself away from what society has taught me about what it means to love somebody, period. Then I can expand and I can grow. Yes. Yeah. And so I think the challenge is on top of doing all of that work, which we just were talking about, is, you know, and I remember one of my many therapists over the years that I've been in therapy said, you know, the challenge for you is being able to like really hold onto yourself inside of the relationship.

22:33 So I think what you're talking about, this expansion, I mean, it's interesting when you grow up and you're told if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Like, of course, you're going to self-abandon, right? Right, right. So I've had many relationships where I also self-abandoned, but it was interesting that I did have one relationship where I actually really expanded. And it was during COVID. there's like these nuances also of relationship dynamics. I mean, when we're in a relationship with ourselves, when we're single, I think doing this work and expanding is, I mean, it's easier.

23:13 It's still work. You still have to be tuning into yourself to find out what's keeping you from expanding, you know, and to understand what's coming up for you in all these different ways. But there is something easier about it when you're not in a relationship, but then you get into a relationship and what happens inside that relationship is so important in this particular relationship which was so interesting to me I mean it was so expansive it was so expansive that I was like hey are you here in this relationship with me like across the ocean you know what I mean and that it did bother me but it was so foreign and there was something about it that also felt refreshing to being in a relationship that has those pressures of like, this is what a relationship is supposed to be.

24:05 You're supposed to spend this much time together and you're supposed to have this much connection and you're supposed to talk on the phone this many hours a day. And here's the relationship escalator and it starts here and then you move in and then you do it and then you get married and then you combine families. Like, no, you know, this was the opposite of that it was like there were there were no boundaries on this relationship I mean aside we weren't dating other people yeah it was just wide open and and what I realized was this person was extremely avoidant more so than I am because I've been that person in the relationship where people have been like where are you I want more of you I want more of you and I'm trying to constantly please that which ends up feeling very suffocating right and hard to pay attention to what you're feeling when you're constantly trying to live up to what other people are telling you is the right way to do it.

24:58 Here's this relationship that's like huge and expansive. The relationship felt expansive. And during that time, that was literally when I came up with the program idea of Unbox Your Sexuality. And I was up at night and then I suddenly started building the program. And that's when I went on social media and everything happened. But I was actually in a relationship that provided so much space that I was able to expand and also be celebrated for what I was creating. And yeah, there was something so different and really so lovely about that.

25:34 It allowed me to see for the first time, wow, like you can be in a relationship where there is space to expand and grow. And I think also another piece of that is what's happening with that person that you're in a relationship with. So, right, going back to like, I'm by myself, single, you're single, we're expanding, right? We're expanding. We're working on expansion and we're expanding. And then you're in a relationship. Are you in a relationship with someone who also wants to be expanding? Are you expanding faster, bigger, more, I don't know, like, let's say, more financially than somebody else, more intellectually, more socially, you know, and then also comes that space is like, can you grow and can your partner grow at differing speeds?

26:32 And can you still be there to cheer each other on and to not have it reflect something about you not doing it as fast or as good or as well or as, you know, not figuring it out as quickly as they have. And so I just think, you know, there's there are these challenges that being in a partnership bring to expansion that are on another level than our independent as single people in the world expansion. I feel that. Yeah, no, I agree fully. and I think it you know like my ex and I used to have a program we used to do a conscious relationship program for clients couples or people in partnerships and you know our whole tagline was like you grow better together and it was like we were speaking to or trying to like meet the gap that's created especially with people in partnerships where there's one person who's doing the work to expand and grow and the other person isn't whether it's through therapy or coaching or like just their own kind of career trajectory and and like there's feelings about there and there's like potential dissonance that's created and then depending on what's going on and how they respond to each other it makes a huge difference about whether or not they're going to be able to like see each other through those moments and or there's going to be like an imbalance inevitably because one person is growing quicker and more expansively than the other.

28:07 And so then what do you do? It's like, you know, and our whole kind of point was to take these clients through these 10 core themes. And, you know, so they would have at least a shared language about different topics that they could come together. They could have agreements. They could understand what their agreements were. They could build a new foundation, if you will, around what it means to be in a conscious relationship. And so, yeah, I think that was, you know, that was part of it. And I think, you know, even in the beginning, especially in the beginning, you feel like you're expanding.

28:43 You feel like in the honeymoon phase, it's like, yes, we are like, you know, all of these things we're expanding, we're going to create all these things. And then if life gets really real, sometimes it doesn't happen or the expansion kind of the things get interrupted so i think it is just to kind of like put the point on like what is your body telling you and are you paying attention to what your body's actually telling you what you're you know what what are your parts telling are you are you feeling more adolescent in this dynamic are you feeling more victim place in this assignment Are you feeling more jealous more envious Like what going on and where are those kind of feelings in your body And what are they telling you And if you dealing with like physical symptoms of something like you know whether it's like, we know that like our trauma, if it's not healed, we can metastasis, it develops into disease or chronic illness.

29:42 And so I think if you're in an environment where you're not getting the space to check in with yourself to understand like what is actually going on, then yeah, you can ultimately end up with a lot of health problems. Yes, absolutely. I mean, just the cortisol being released from the stress of the reactivity that is just cycling and there isn't repair happening and there isn't really a break because the communication is just not at that level where you actually really feel like I mean you haven't really heard and understood yourself so you can't really even explain that to the other person so they're not able to see and hear you and I mean it's just oh gosh you know it's painful yeah do you think part of the the queer experience is also contributing or adds to the lack of awareness or the potential lack of awareness because of it's like I kind of trust that I don't that this person is not going to treat me this way.

30:45 I work more with late bloomers, but I work with also lifelong lesbians as well. And I have many lifelong lesbian friends. I mean, I think that there is also more impact around not knowing oneself when you're a lifelong queer person. Yeah. Even though you've known your identity for a long time, but because of the, you know, feeling like you're not part of the mainstream when you're younger. I think as you come into pride and you come into more and more as an adult, you know, there's a different feeling about being a gay person where you really come into like freaking loving living outside of all these boxes, you know, like who wants to live outside the boxes?

31:26 But I do think that disconnecting from oneself is something that a lot of people who realize that they're not straight early on because of the society we live in, that they need to disconnect. They learn to disconnect from some of those signs that are coming up about them being gay. And they try to push them down because we live in a heterosexist society. Right. So yeah, their internalized homophobia will compromise their ability to actually be like, yeah, I am really attracted to her. And yeah, I'm totally fine with that.

32:06 And that's not any different from him being attracted to her or her being attracted to him. And I'm totally fine with that. Instead, there's this intense need to shove that down. Don't feel that. Don't tell anybody. Make sure nobody knows. And so there's like another layer of identity, right? Not just feeling, not just emotion, not just actual identity that is being compromised in its ability to like rise up and connect from an earlier age. So I think, you know, I think that that that does impact to some degree.

32:42 Yeah, for sure. Definitely. You agree with that? I do agree with that. I think it's interesting because paradoxically, the lived experience of what it means to be internal enough, say internally to yourself, getting to a place of what am I paying attention to when I watch TV or I'm looking at magazines or I'm drawn to this person's energy is such an internal process. and so there's so much going on i think before you get to a place where you can actually say out loud i think i'm queer yeah and everyone does that work in their own time in their own pace everyone who's not straight and people who are are like that's the thing like people who are straight don't ever have to do that right they don't ever have to do that and they also don't have the shame that comes with those magazines or movies or whatever, where you have those feelings of attraction and you don't quite know what it means, but you know that it's, you don't know anybody else who's having those and something made me off with this.

34:00 And so you have that shame. Yeah. And that's even like without growing up in a super religious household, which, you know, so many of the, so many, so many women that I work with have grown up with really extreme religion, which, wow. I mean, I feel so lucky that I did not have that. Yeah. Same. Yeah. When, when I hear their stories, I mean, I literally, I'm like crying, listening to just, to just what it was to grow up and what they were taught. It's like, I, it's, it's so painful. So painful. Yeah, I have a few clients who were sent to like...

34:41 Conversion therapy? Convert. Thank you. Conversion therapy. And it's so... Unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Yeah. And, you know, and now it's like my kids, like I've been asking them since they were like little, like, how are you feeling? Like, you know, and my youngest is like, you know, I think at this point she identifies as Pan and I'm not hooking into that fully because she's... 13 but I'm also not dismissing it I'm not like you know it's kind of like they have their own lived experience of like figuring things out they're going to continue to figure things out definitely not conversations that we were having with no and in fact just last night my daughter was here my daughter's 26 and her 26 year old friend and we were chatting she identifies as straight.

35:32 And she was sharing that a friend of hers who I know has been dating this woman. And so I said, I had no idea that she was bi. And she said, yeah, neither did I. But she had sex with this woman. And all she wanted to tell me about was how great the sex was. I was like dying laughing. I mean, she and her friend were laughing and I was just like, yeah, well, I mean, you know, like, of course. It really, but it really made me laugh. But like, to be able to have just this really open conversation where this friend of hers has only ever dated guys, but this woman hit on her and she was like, why not?

36:17 Like just open and then being like, holy cow, that was the best sex I ever had. And then that coming back over to my daughter and her friend who are straight, you know, and them just like loving it and thinking it's awesome. You know, that just goes to show like, I mean, obviously certain demographics and, you know, living in New York City and. Right. Yeah. So it's different today for so many. It's very different. And not for others, you know. I mean, it's still, there are still kids, you know, losing their life over this.

36:53 So, yeah, I mean, it definitely, I mean, you know, and the movement itself has been fast comparative to other movements, but there's still so much work to do. Yeah. And we're, and we're kind of going backwards at the same time that we're going forward. We're also going backwards in the bigger systems way. So yeah. Talk about expansion. I mean, it's like shrinkage. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Yes. The contrast, I guess, that we were talking about earlier. It's like we need both to grow. If you've been listening to this conversation and you have ideas about expansion and how you relate to this and what listening to this conversation has brought up for you, feel free to share either in the comments on the podcast itself or you could contact me or Christine on social media.

37:49 I'm Lesbian Curiosity Coach. Christine is at the Real Poetic Paradox. And, you know, let us know if this resonates with you. We love hearing from you. So, yes. Thank you for yet another interesting and fun conversation. I am sure next week I'll get a message from you that says, hey, I really want to talk about, I don't know what, but I'm looking forward to whatever that's going to be. Yes, thank you. Thank you so much for opening your platform. Absolutely. It's a joy. Thank you for spending this time with me on Unbox Yourself with Samantha Fox.

38:31 If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and leave a review. It helps more folks find these conversations. If you're ready to unbox from something that's keeping you stuck, I would love to support you. You can find the application to the show at unboxyoursexuality.com. Let's stay connected. Find me on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at Lesbian Curiosity Coach. Give me a follow and join the conversation. Remember, we only have this one time through.

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